New Cone exhaust on NM4 - Honda Vultus Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 09-24-2015, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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New Cone exhaust on NM4

So after some consideration to the several different exhausts we can use on the NM4 (yes, all of the NC700x exhausts I've tested will fit just fine using a slight modification to the hangers) I ended up with the least expensive, and in my opinion, best sounding silencer/muffler I have heard.

I was looking for something very throaty which provided a boost in sound but wasn't overbearing. I didn't bother with the Moriwaki simply because I didn't want to spend $1K on a muffler. I lucked out while Roy was around in that he had several NC700 models come through his garage and would record the audibles, with a couple of weekends where we were able to put a few on the bike and listen to them (and we didn't have to force them on or adjust the pipe to fit them in place). All were louder than stock, but only one was kinda close to the tone I was looking for. Roy tried his hand at using 3 smaller coned pipes in an N configuration within a triangle-ish shape to fit under the pannier but it ended up sounding like pissed off bumble bees in a folgers coffee can. We pretty much kept looking for off the shelf stuff at that point before he ended up leaving Austin for work.

I dropped by Revival Cycles here in Austin and talked to Chris who looked at a CAD design I presented thinking that a dual warped cone to a 2 inch set of pipes would sound great...he let me hear a couple of the longer cones on some of the ducati's then we talked about dropping on a shorty cone to open the backend up like the other side by essentially tucking and hiding the cone a bit.

Since they were too busy to get to it, I ordered the cone and did a temporary propane solder job making a stainless ring with flux and solder. The 12 inch cone is from Cone Engineering purchased through moto-madness.com. It not only sounds awesome, but I couldn't argue with the fact that it was stainless steel so it wouldn't rust out, AND it was only a hair over $100.00.



To listen to it, hit my youtube link:
The original exhaust sound from the first day recording: Original Exhaust Sound

The Cone Engineering 12inch Shorty recorded earlier tonight:Shorty Exhaust Sound

Here is a link to the website I purchased the silencer from, if you do go with this, you want the 1.5in unit. It literally slides right on to the existing pipe. You can then integrate it with screws, a clamp ring (by cutting the end so it collapses), welding it, or soldering (which is easily removed by applying heat back to it and pulling the cone off). The exhaust is extremely light by comparison to the original so you are shaving somewhere around 6 lbs off, possibly more.

Moto Madness Cone Engineering Exhaust Page

The next project is to get it tucked up a little higher and closer to the body, then hide it with a shield that covers all but the end of the cone so you would have to look twice to notice there was an exhaust outlet there. It also throws the exhaust out to the side but another plan is to weld a flow plate on it to guide the exhaust downward to keep it from damaging or sooting up the plastics.



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post #2 of 30 Old 09-24-2015, 01:09 AM
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That IS quite an improvement on the sound. Nice find.

Out of curiosity, of the different mufflers you looked at and tested, did you ever try out the MIVV Suono? This one seems to have caught my attention of all the aftermarket ones out there both in style and acoustics.

What "slight modification to the hangers" need to be done for those that are made for NC700X?
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post #3 of 30 Old 09-24-2015, 01:44 AM Thread Starter
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We never did run into a MIVV but it certainly sounds great in the videos I found of it.

As far as the hangers are concerned, if the muffler is of the type that has a clamp style (like the MIVV appears to have) such as the Akropovic, GPR, Danmoto, Tri-780 or LeoVince models, we found it easiest to roll the muffler on upside facing out and then twist it in position while the clamp is jiggled to fit into the existing location. These are easiest.

The ones that required work had static plates attached to them and were really close to lining up but the holes had to be ovaled a little to get the bolt back in.

There was one pipe that actually rode high, meaning the plate was below the muffler. This is the one we had to move the plate from the low side to the high side, then heat the intake pipe up and bend it to fit properly. I'm thinking it was the one that had these silencer rings at the end that you could add on to for tuning the sound but for the life of me I can't remember who made it. I just remember the outlet looked kinda like a trumpet mute.



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post #4 of 30 Old 09-24-2015, 07:05 AM
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No excessive heat under the pannier? I've seen plastics melt when exhaust exits under it.

2015 NM4. took delivery on Sept 13, 2014

Mods: homemade bracket for topcase, modified NC700S center stand, rear brake at left hand using Silver Wing master cylinder, Amps Rugged Mount 12v GPS charger/mount, USB power at handlebars, Hot Grips heated grips, Clearwater Glenda LED driving lights, SAE power port, Mo-Door hidden garage opener, Custom seat foam and gel pad with hot weather top pad.

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post #5 of 30 Old 09-24-2015, 10:41 AM
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When I called Honda to find out about fitment of aftermarket exhausts made for the NC700, they couldn't give me a definite answer because the stock mufflers for each machine were different part numbers. But they also mentioned, a re-tuning may be required for any change in exhaust on the NM4 because it's not just about sound but optimal performance with regards to fuel-efficiency and horsepower. How true is this?
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post #6 of 30 Old 09-24-2015, 02:46 PM
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well of course you popped up with this, right after I ordered that other shorty exhaust.
I know I've a to-do to verify that the shorty will clear the center stand. How did yours work out. Seems there is an unused stop built into the center stand on the right side that can cause issues. Being unused, think I'll chop it off and not have that issue, ever.
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post #7 of 30 Old 09-24-2015, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by NeMoFour View Post
When I called Honda to find out about fitment of aftermarket exhausts made for the NC700, they couldn't give me a definite answer because the stock mufflers for each machine were different part numbers. But they also mentioned, a re-tuning may be required for any change in exhaust on the NM4 because it's not just about sound but optimal performance with regards to fuel-efficiency and horsepower. How true is this?
How true is it? Well for just doing the muffler, I suspect not very. But probably not a bad idea to reset the CPU by pulling the battery. I believe the flow is to disconnect the battery for awhile, reconnect it, start the bike, and let it idle until fully warm and the fan comes on, then shut it off.
Now if you got rid of the cat, which is providing backpressure, and the muffler, then would seem a whole lot more likely that you'd benefit from remapping the engine. Someone going that far would probably redo the intake as well, meaning more potential need to remap the engine.
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post #8 of 30 Old 09-24-2015, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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On the concern of heat, that is my primary concern and will be addressed with a tucked in heat shield made from aluminum plate. The plastics on this bike are ABS mainly, which has a melting point of 221 degrees F. Thus far the highest exhaust temp I've tested with a thermal probe was 156 F on a 90 degree day. Given that the tuck would still provide more than 2 inches of air space between the outlet and aluminum plate it should be relatively safe as long as I'm not riding in temps above 115 degrees.
I still need to test this particular exhaust with the probe however before determining the size and cuts needed for the plate that goes under the pannier.

As for the ECM/PCM/ECU/Computer...I echo Comedie's response here. A small change like a catback or a muffler, while it does free up some backpressure, would probably not warrant a re-programmer...A reset to the ECM would be plenty, and here's why....nearly all electronic control modules for vehicles are built with code that initiates a re-learn cycle if ANY changes to fuel or air ratios are recognized. In most cases today, you can add the voltage output of the distributor, the intake air pressure, the current engine timing parameters, and a dozen or so other sensors set up around an engine. This re-learning cycle continues over a period of time so engine idle speed is maintained, along with correct air/fuel mixture as you ride/drive....it also constantly updates until it reaches a level where the programming code detects a fault with a sensor, or the sensor reading is to far out of bounds. It stores this in a data table in memory and pulls from it every time you power the bike on, checks all the variables and picks the data out to the engine based on the data in. If it's new data, it gets recorded for use later.
Generally, pulling the battery will cause an ECM to reset (quite a few vehicles do this), but there are some that have a reset process, like insert key, circle bike 3 times, stand on head and press red button next to ecm while singing "Oklahoma"....joking here but there are vehicles that use non-volatile memory...that which does not get wiped by loss of a power...in that case a reset procedure is required to clear that old map from memory and put the ECM back into learning mode as if it were reading a new engine for the first time.

In a carburated world with no ECM attached, the bike would run but you would have odd starting and idle response depending on environment variables like barometric pressure, weather it's hot or cold, etc...

In changing out an entire exhaust, you run into a situation where the responding exhaust temperature and exiting air-fuel mix read by the sensors is so different that the ECM goes into compensation mode (usually known as safe mode) and flags all kinds of codes for review. In this case, a device like a Power Commander tuning module would be a first step...this would allow one to fake the ecm into thinking everything was hunky-dory with the AF ratio when, in fact it's outside the "normal range" of the ECM's fault code. The Power commander basically allows the programmer/tuner to re-build an A/F Ratio map over a given RPM range so that new tuned exhaust without a CAT will work and the ECM thinks everything is just peachy because of the "good" readings it sees on the data lines. You would need to do this if you installed a turbo system above a certain boost point, or swapped cams, modified the heads, put in larger pistons, increased the stroke, swapped to larger intake plenum or larger fuel nozzles.



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post #9 of 30 Old 09-24-2015, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comedie View Post
well of course you popped up with this, right after I ordered that other shorty exhaust.
I know I've a to-do to verify that the shorty will clear the center stand. How did yours work out. Seems there is an unused stop built into the center stand on the right side that can cause issues. Being unused, think I'll chop it off and not have that issue, ever.
The cone unit literally slipped right on nice and tight. No fitment issues at all. Setting the solder bead was pretty quick as well, I just had to move that lower plastic dam a little to get the hot end close enough to melt the solder.

I do like the unit you found though...I thought about that super shorty because the black one fits well with the color down there, you can point it out or down so there is no heat to worry about, and it should give a similar note, if not louder, to the cone unit. The price is nice @ 60 bux too. I may pick one of these up later to play with.

Capture audio for us please...would like to hear that little guy.



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post #10 of 30 Old 09-25-2015, 07:45 AM
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The cone unit literally slipped right on nice and tight. No fitment issues at all. Setting the solder bead was pretty quick as well, I just had to move that lower plastic dam a little to get the hot end close enough to melt the solder.

I do like the unit you found though...I thought about that super shorty because the black one fits well with the color down there, you can point it out or down so there is no heat to worry about, and it should give a similar note, if not louder, to the cone unit. The price is nice @ 60 bux too. I may pick one of these up later to play with.

Capture audio for us please...would like to hear that little guy.
Actually ended up at a tad under $51 as I recall, after I used a 15% off code. FACEBOOK15 , if I remember right. Just arrived USPS yesterday. It is pretty small
Bike has been in the shop getting its first service, so muffler and center stand are on hold until I get it back, and find some time. The shop is asking me some interesting questions, so I think they may indeed realize that something has been amiss from Day 1 and are trying to diagnose it. While they are in that mode I am not going to push them to getting it back to me quickly.

Soon as they release it back to me, think I will make the addtl 10 mile trip to Corbin in Hollister to have them redo the seat. Then once back home, the exhaust and centerstand will be the next to-dos. Once the seat is redone by Corbin, which likely adds a little height there, I can also begin to rework the handlebar area. Already picked up a wider Renthal Fatbar to fit in there.

So a bit of a backlog of things to do. I can certainly try to get a clip of the exhaust. Not sure how to take a video that is representative, but will play with it. I've seen many many youtube exhaust vids where people make the mistake of doing them in garages. Not very good examples of how they really sound.
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